Rome's Caesar was successful in conquering Rome. Why was Mongol's Kubilai Khan unsuccessful in conquering Japan? Both situations were pretty much similar. A rapidly rising empire conquering its neighbors. Yet, while Caesar succeeded Khan failed. The question is, did he really?

The official historical records and evaluations conclude that the typhoons at the time of invasion sank all the invaders. It's like natural disasters had to do something with men's will to military conquest. Is it really possible? It's like Columbus could not have discovered America if there were strong hurricanes in the Caribbeans.

It's very unbelievable that the mighty Mongol invading forces could not conquer Japan because of typhoons. If they failed at first really because of typhoons, why couldn't they come the next year or the next? The distance between the invasion base of Koryo dynasty of Korea and Japan is somewhat similar to the distance between England and France. They couldn't land on Japan because of some storms? That's really hard to believe.

But, it's also convincing that some powerful typhoons could have indeed deterred the invading forces. And when it really happened, the Mongols thought that they just could let go of Japan, for they really were basically land armies. But, the Han Chinese and the Koreans at the time very much aided and helped to organize the Mongol navy and its gigantic attack ships. The Chinese and the Koreans were well experienced and had the know-how of building effective navies, no doubt about that. The Yellow Sea was abundunt with naval warfare and commercial activities between the two and Japan. And to suggest that the typhoons ended Mongols dream of conquering Japan is really I would say a very unconvincing case.

But, still, no historical records and books have been found or written that conclude that Mongols had conquered Japan and included it as their territory. It's just very easy to question this historical conclusion.

The typhoon season in the region is similar to the Atlan hurricane season: during the summer months. So if the Mongols failed at first, they could have come during early spring or late fall or something. They had the local knowledge from the Chinese and the Koreans, they really could have conquered Japan easily.

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Rome's Caesar was successful in conquering Rome.

HiFo is always going to be 3rd rate innit?

That's Britian. I do not read what I just write.

Caesar conquered Britian. Yes, ok.
And I just might add here that maybe typhoons indeed deterred the Mongol forces. Both Napoleon and Hitler got kicked out from Moscow with the help from the cold. So, it is convincing that typhoons played the same. But, the question is, typhoons do not last months. They last maybe a day or two. I lived in the region, so I know typhoons. Typhoons are same as hurricanes, big powerful storms. They would cross the seas and land on the mainlands and will disappear. Comparing the feeezing weather and typhoons are not really convincing.

And the Mongols probably knew that they local knolwedge of the typhoon season. The Mongol invading forces of Japan was largely made of the Mongols themselves and the local Chinese and Korean forces. They were well aware of the typhoons. But, still, one can still make a case that Napoleon probably knew about the freezing situation near Moscow. And still he chose to invade there during winter months. Same can be said of the Mongol situation.

But again, as I said, typhoons do not last long time. If, the Mongol ships were all destroyed by the typhoons, then perhaps, they could not make more ships back home and start invasion again. That probably is the only convincing reasoning behind why Mongols failed to conquere Japan.

However, with the large war chest of the Mongols, why there were no follow up attack is also another question. Overall, the general conclusion that the typhoons as the winds of god really is awful.

As far as I am concerned, the loss was due to the fact that the Mongol cavalry, which had been the success of pervious conquests, did not fare so well aboard ships.

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If the Mongols could have gotten ashore, things would have been very different.

No doubt about that.

The kamikaze really was more of the nail in the coffin, so to speak, of the Mongol Invasions. In other words, they were well on their way to defeat before the kamikaze hit. The Japanese defenders were more than holding their own against the Mongol invaders.

Contrary to what's been said in this thread, the Mongols DID get on shore.

This is a great PDF on the subject, that's since been made into a book.

http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/pdfs/conlan.pdf

Hachiman Taro wrote:

The kamikaze really was more of the nail in the coffin, so to speak, of the Mongol Invasions. In other words, they were well on their way to defeat before the kamikaze hit. The Japanese defenders were more than holding their own against the Mongol invaders.

Contrary to what's been said in this thread, the Mongols DID get on shore.

This is a great PDF on the subject, that's since been made into a book.

http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/pdfs/conlan.pdf

Yes, indeed, the Mongols did land onshore but faced one of many walls that the Japanese had built in preparation for a Mongol invasion after the first attempt. The truth is that winter would have arrived and the Mongols would have still been on their ships, running out of supplies and feeling demoralized.

Japanese swimmers were harassing the Mongols ships at night. They would start fires, kill anyone they could and dive back in the water. Since most Mongols and Chinese couldn't swim they would escape.

Furthermore, many of the ships that sunk in the typhoon were river vessels, which Kublai Khan used because he didn't have the patience to build enough sea vessels.

thing is to compare the Invasion of Japan by the Mongols to the British Invasion by Ceaser. While the Mongols surpassed the japanese in Tactics. The Japanese were a lot more organized then the celts. The celts fought a lot amongst themselves there was no real collusion between them. The Thing about Typhoons is the Typhoon season far outlives the atlantic hurricane season by almost double the time.